This is a question sent in by JDP on the “Ask Aaron Anything” link:
What is your thoughts on Calvinisim?
My Answer:
I think Calvinist are cool! I am Calvinist(ISH) I have a couple of points that I would add to the five points, some balancing points. I have a lot of friends that are Arminian in doctrine and I still love them and can unite with them. This is why I am Calvinist(ISH), I do believe in the complete depravity of man and that man, by nature and choice, are sinners. I believe that man has free will but in their free will they will choose sin. I believe that salvation is not from the works or efforts of man but by grace of God through Jesus. He saved me and chose me! I believe in single handed pre-destination – That all are damned to hell because of sin but God reaches down and saves the elect. I believe that if Jesus began salvation in me that He will complete it so I am thankful that salvation is in the protective hands of Jesus. I love the doctrine of calvin it is very Jesus centered.
Now my small issues I think that there are extremists who, in not wanting to handle the tension of the 2 doctrines, will dismiss how there is free will of man. I think that God gave man complete free will and that makes Him even more sovereign, if that is possible. You have to be really in control if you can give everyone free will and still accomplish your sovereign will. Blows my mind! He is sovereign! I also have a hard time with double handed predestination. I also have a hard time with a lot of calvinist who do not have a big passion for outreach and evangelism. That seems to be changing but I think this doctrine should make us even more passionate to plant and water knowing that God brings the increase. I think doctrinally they are on point but in some ways our pride in our knowledge has puffed up and there is not much love for people. I think this is changing but just something I have noticed from the inside. I also have had a hard time with most calvinists not being open with the gifts of the Holy Spirit nor being passionate people. Most calvinists are “haters” when it comes to the present day work of the Holy Spirit. So yes I am calvinist(ISH) but I am also believe in the present work of the Holy Spirit and I am very passionate about reaching out. Anyway good question! But I do not like to argue about this stuff because I do not think I am smart enough to settle a debate that has been going on for all of history!
P.S. Great video by Mark Driscoll about this subject very good stuff!
Since I grew up Baptist and after receiving the baptism of the holy spirit I was part of Assemblies of God for years, so I've heard really good arguements for both arminianism and calvinism. I guess the one thing that really bothers me about calvinism is "limited atonement". If God only came to save an elect group of people does that mean everyone else is damned with no hope of salvation? Are there people who really have no free will and are unable to receive the grace and mercy only God can give? Why would God not desire for all people to come to Him? I am so confused on this point, because I believe God is not a respecter of persons. Could you clarify a little more as to why you believe in limited atonement? I really want to understand this more. Thanks!
Yea i love the response aaron. And i agree lauren, cause i dont believe that Jesus came to only save the elect, i believe he came to break the curse of sin on the world by becoming a curse on the cross for us. There are alot of parts of calvinisim that i agree with, but just like most things, i dont agree with every part of it, it is why i wouldent call my self a calvinist or anything else, im a Follower of Christ and i believe we should all walk a line, not becoming radical leaning toward one group, such as calvinist or arminist, but just keeping our eyes on Christ and lining everying by the Word of God. The thing that struck me about calvinism is irresistable Grace, because in my life one thing is sure, Christ is irresistable, nomatter what happens, he has predestined me to conform to His image and he has ensured that by making himself irresistable. I cant live without him, and im not just saying that, hes as irresistable as taking my next breath, i may hold it for a second or two, but i cant live without it.
I agree bro… I am like calvinist(ish) I have some things that I add as side notes… and some modifications. But all and all I am a follower of JESUS. YEAH!
And i do agree with aaron, that with the idea that Christ calls whom he wishes and we have no free will in the process it kinda lends people to stop evangelising or to just let God do what Gods gonna do. But I believe in Gods complete sovereignty and Mans complete free will, but just because i believe God calls those to whom he chooses does not mean we dont need to evangelize, it means, God called us so that we might go out to those people whom he is also calling. It is mans Choice whether he believes in Jesus or not, but it is our obligation to evangelize and to teach in the name of Christ, that is in fact why were here in the first place, spread the fame of Christ, uphold the Honor of God and to be fishers of men. No matter what, it is our dutie to be fishers of men, the men we catch is up to God, but it is our duty to continual cast the net into the water.
Lauren,
I have done quite a bit of study… but not the most to say the least. I would suggest that you both put due diligence in and study out these points. I think mars hill puts out the most free materiel from the calvinist point of view. Like I said I am calvinist(ish)! I believe in unlimited limited atonement I would say you should listen to this sermon instead of me explaining what I mean
http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/christ-on-the…
Joe, think about what you said you do not believe in the elect but you do believe in irresistable grace. Those two would have go hand in hand because if we could not resist his grace then the elect would have to be the ones that could not resist his grace. Just a thought!
hey guys one thing this stuff to me is a point of distinction but not a point of disunity. I would say that it is cool to discuss it but not something that we are going to settle after thousands of years of debate.
I'll check out that sermon! I love discussing stuff like this…but it won't lead to disunity on my end! =)
i know it will not for you girl… bless ya as you porsue understanding on this issue!!
No i do believe in the elect, like the body of Christ who are called by him, but i just dont believe Christ died only for us, but for the sins of the whole world.
Christ is irresistible to me, and i believe that Christ calls certain people who are the elect. but i still believe Christ died for the whole world, not just to save those who would believe in him, but to give the opportunity to the whole world. The elect, i believe, are the only people to whom would take up Christ on his gift of salvation, thus Christ makes himself irresistible to them, so as to not lose them. Idk that makes sense to me, its just cool stuff to ponder.
And thats really my biggest objection to Calvinism is that "limited atonement', just because God knows a limited amount of people will take him up on his gift of salvation and that he would make himself irresistible to those people so as to not lose them does not mean that the offer of atonement was only to them, even though he knew they were the only ones to accept it.
Well God knows who was gonna except his gift of salvation, so technically that atonement was limited to the people who accepted it, but i still believe the offer of salvation was to the whole world, and the people who except it are the people God knew would accept it.
I take it as the 'limited atonement means that Calvin was saying that Christ died only for the elect", when in fact i believe he died for the whole world, but the atonement is limited to those who would accept it, because they are the only ones to accept it. lol idk if you can correct me on anything aaron, feel free cause i just find the whole Calvinist theology very interesting to think about.
oh cool.. yeah i understand that… I believe that Christ died for all! the limited atonement part is a part that I do not agree totally with either.
yea i hear ya, i mean obviously if only some people get saved than the atonement is limited to them, its just like kyle was talking about with the whole common grace.
I love what Tim Keller had to say on the doctrine of election. Election just confronts Christians with the same problem we all have. Why are some saved and others not? So it's something to wrestle with, but most importantly we know the Bible is crystal clear on grace. Hold onto grace with everything you have and the rest will fall into place.
And there is biblical text supporting both. The difficulty is how we use both together. We can't throw away or ignore the other verses. The best dialogue I've heard on this is basically unlimited atonement applying to common grace(available to all) and limited atonement applying to saving grace(only some). So that the 2 can co-exist, all are beneficiaries of the cross but not all benefit the same in saving grace.
You can research "Unlimited-limited atonement" if you're interested.
that is the battle for truth right there can we take all scripture and embrace truth no matter how much it seems to contradict we embrace the tension. I am just thankful for HIS grace and truth. Good stuff kyle.
I have to hear the message. Send me the link to this Tim Keller message or post it on here. I want to hear it dude! Thanks for your insight. Hold onto grace. Love it!
I suggest every husband give their wife a tulip as a suddle way of introducing them to Calvinism.
PA I have one more question! If God chooses the elect and they are not able to resist His grace then why does He still find fault in those unelect?
I was reading Romans 9 today and it says…Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?”
First of all is this scripture talking about the elect? Secondly, it appeared the following passages said to not question why God chooses some and not others. Can you clarify this for me?
Thanks PA!
Great question. Irresistable Grace can not mean people do not resist we have all resisted his grace and scripture talks about it over and over again. If we are left to our selves we will resist it all of our days. It is by the power of the spirit that he makes his grace irrestable by overcoming our resistance.
I could try to answer this but it would take a lengthy discussion… Now I will try and explain in short but I would that you take some extended time to study these things because I believe the Holy Spirit can bring a rest in His sovereignty.
I believe that God chooses (election) and we choose (free will) and that if left to or choose we will always choose fault and sin and resitance and God is right to still find fault in us and give mercy to none of us. The questions are to show that God is right to judge even though he shows mercy. I know my answer is incomplete and I am sorry… but study..
This message helped me it is not on romans 9 but it will deepen your thoughts on this study…
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermon…